Ystadegau diddorol am farwolaethau yng Ngogledd Iwerddon:

[Sioni Size]

Methu gweld y llun a dydi'r linc ddim yn tycio. A mae'r chwilfrydedd yn lladd. Wel, yn cosi beth bynnag.

Oes na rywun heblaw'r ultra-oren Pogon hyd yn oed ymysg meddylwyr mwyaf brwdfrydig a thrylwyr yr Urdd Oren yn ystyried Martin McGuinness fel yr un saethodd y catholigion ar y sul hwnnw'n '72? Mae'n cyrraedd uchafbwynt, pinacl mewn prydeindod gorffwyll.

[Dr Gwion Larsen]

Mar lincs bod yn boen eto , sgroliwch i waelod y dudalen o fy ngwefan a cewch weld ffrwyth fy llafur yma, eto O'r chwith i'r dde: Michael Jackson a'i brif swyddog diogelwch, Eamon, Perchenog y maes, Sioni Size, GT, Norman, Pogon (yn fuan ar ol y lawdriniaeth), Y gwr/gwraig gwadd, Dr personnol y gwr/gwraig gwadd, Dan Dean.
Ac yn yr ail lun mae realydd wedi ei adio ar y dde!

[Sioni Size]

Ehe. Pwy di hwnna yn yr het uwchben David Icke?

[Dr Gwion Larsen]

Myfi Dr y gwr/gwraig gwadd!

[Eamon]

Mae rhywun wedi bod yn cael hwyl ers i mi bod yn y man yma o'r blaen!

Oes na rywun heblaw'r ultra-oren Pogon hyd yn oed ymysg meddylwyr mwyaf brwdfrydig a thrylwyr yr Urdd Oren yn ystyried Martin McGuinness fel yr un saethodd y catholigion ar y sul hwnnw'n '72? Mae'n cyrraedd uchafbwynt, pinacl mewn prydeindod gorffwyll.

Yr ateb ydi na wrth gwrs. Tydi hyd yn oed Pogon dim yn credu hyn. A bod yn teg efo Pogs dwi yn meddwl (er dim yn siwr) mai deud oedd o bod na Martin oedd wedi dechrau pethau trwy saethu at Brits. Does na neb yn credu hyn gan cynwys y person nath gwneud yr honiad.

Hyd yn oed tasa fo yn gwir bysa gan y Brits dim llawer i poeni amdano fo. Fysa Martin methu hitio elephant o 5 llath efo sawn off shotgun.

[Sioni Size]

O'dd yr IRA yn falch iawn o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd.

Dyma paham saethodd Martin McGuiness y shots cyntaf.

Pa rhai o'r shots rhain wnaeth hitio'r "British Army"?

Dim, ond yn ol y dystiolaeth ddiweddaraf o flaen y llys n'ath rhai o'r saethiadau daro'r gorymdeithwyr.

Dyma'r honiad gan y meistr Pogon, Eamon.

[Eamon]

O'dd yr IRA yn falch iawn o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd.

Dyma paham saethodd Martin McGuiness y shots cyntaf.

Pa rhai o'r shots rhain wnaeth hitio'r "British Army"?

Dim, ond yn ol y dystiolaeth ddiweddaraf o flaen y llys n'ath rhai o'r saethiadau daro'r gorymdeithwyr.

Dyma'r honiad gan y meistr Pogon, Eamon.

Ti yn iawn Sioni. Dim ond gan Pogon dwi erioed wedi clywed y nonsens yma o y blaen. Mae y peth mor wirion mae o yn anodd i ei ateb.

Ella bod na y ffordd gorau ydi edrych ar beth oedd gan Widgery i'w deud. Paid propogandist oedd Widgery - ac roedd ei ymchwil yn dim byd mwy na whitewash mwya crude. Dyna pam mae ymchwil arall (drud ofnadwy) yn cael ei gwneud rwan. Ei job o oedd gwneud i pobl Derry a y pobl caeth ei saethu edrych mor drwg a posibl, a i y Brits edrych mor da a posibl. Nath o job da iawn ar hyn. Eto dyma sut mae o yn disgrifio beth nath digwydd,

The Deceased Considered Individually

John Francis Duddy

69. Age 17. He was probably the first fatal casualty and fell in the courtyard of Rossville Flats. (Mr Grimaldi’s photographs EP 26/12, 13 and 14.) As already recounted (paragraph 50(i)) he was seen to fall by Father Daly. Mrs Bonnor and Mrs Duffy both spoke of seeing a soldier fire at him. According to Mrs Bonnor he was shot in the back. In fact the bullet entered his right shoulder and travelled through his body from right to left. As he ran he turned from time to time to watch the soldiers. This fits in with Father Daly having overtaken him while running and explains the entry wound being in his side. No shot described by a soldier precisely fits Duddy’s case. The nearest is one described by Soldier V who spoke of firing at a man in a white shirt in the act of throwing a petrol bomb, but Duddy was wearing a red shirt and there is no evidence of his having a bomb. His reaction to the paraffin test was negative. I accept that Duddy was not carrying a bomb or firearm. The probable explanation of his death is that he was hit by a bullet intended for someone else.

Patrick Joseph Doherty

70. Age 31. His body was found in the area at the rear of No 2 Block of Rossville Flats between that Block and Joseph Place. His last moments are depicted in a remarkable series of photographs taken by Mr Peress which show him with a handkerchief over the lower part of his face crawling with others near the alleyway which separates No 2 Block from No 3. (EP 25/7, 8, 9, 11 and 12.) He was certainly hit from behind whilst crawling or crouching because the bullet entered his buttock and proceeded through his body almost parallel to the spine. There is some doubt as to whether he was shot when in the alleyway or at the point where his body was found. On the whole I prefer the latter conclusion. If this is so the probability is that he was shot by Soldier F, who spoke of hearing pistol shots and seeing a crouching man firing a pistol from the position where Doherty’s body was found. Soldier F said that he fired as the man turned away, which would account for an entry wound in the buttock. Doherty’s reaction to the paraffin test was negative. In the light of all the evidence I conclude that he was not carrying a weapon. If Soldier F shot Doherty in the belief that he had a pistol that belief was mistaken.

Hugh Pius Gilmore

71. Age 17. Gilmore died near the telephone box which stands south of Rossville Flats and near the alleyway separating Blocks 1 and 2. According to Miss Richmond he was one of a crowd of 30 to 50 people who ran away down Rossville Street when the soldiers appeared. She described his being hit just before he reached the barricade and told how she helped him to run on across the barricade towards the point where he collapsed. A photograph of Gilmore by Mr Robert White (EP 23/9A), which according to Miss Richmond was taken after he was hit, shows no weapon in his hand. The track of the bullet is not consistent with Gilmore being shot from directly behind and I think it likely that the statement of Mr Sean McDermott is more accurate on this point than the evidence of Miss Richmond. Mr McDermott put Gilmore as standing on the barricade in Rossville Street when he was hit and in a position such that his front or side may have been presented to the soldiers.

72. Gilmore was shot by one of the soldiers who fired from Kells Walk at the men at the barricade. It is impossible to identify the soldier. Gilmore’s reaction to the paraffin test was negative. There is no evidence that he used a weapon.

Bernard McGuigan

73. Age 41. This man was shot within a short distance of Gilmore, on the south side of No 2 Block of the Rossville Flats. According to Miss Richmond a wounded man was calling for help and Mr McGuigan, carrying a white handkerchief, deliberately left a position of cover to attend to him. She said that he was shot almost at once. Other civilian witnesses confirmed this evidence and photographs of McGuigan’s body show the white handkerchief in question. (Mr Peress’s EP 31/2 and 3 and EP 25/18.) Although there was some evidence that the shot came from Glenfada Park, which means that the soldier who fired might have been Solider F, another possibility is that the shot came through the alleyway between Blocks 1 and 2. I cannot form any worthwhile conclusion on this point.

74. Although the eye witnesses all denied that McGuigan had a weapon, the paraffin test disclosed lead deposits on the right palm and the web, back and palm of his left hand. The deposit on the right hand was in the form of a smear, those on the left hand were similar to the deposits produced by a firearm. The earlier photographs of McGuigan’s body show his head uncovered but in a later one it is covered with a scarf. (Mr Grimaldi’s EP 26/25.) The scarf showed a heavy deposit of lead, the distribution and density of which was consistent with the scarf having been used to wrap a revolver which had been fired several times. His widow was called to say that the scarf did not belong to him. I accept her evidence in concluding it is not possible to say that McGuigan was using or carrying a weapon at the time when he was shot. The paraffin test, however, constitutes ground for suspicion that he had been in close proximity to someone who had fired.

John Pius Young

75. Age 17. This young man was one of three who were shot at the Rossville Street barricade by one of the cluster of 10 to 12 shots referred to by Mr Campbell (paragraph 58 above refers). (Mr Mailey’s EP 23/4. Mr Mailey said that two men fell immediately after he took this photograph.) Young was undoubtedly associated with the youths who were throwing missiles at the soldiers from the barricade and the track of the bullet suggests that he was facing the soldiers at the time. Several soldiers, notably P, J, U, C, K, L and M all said that they fired from the Kells Walk area at men who were using firearms or throwing missiles from the barricade. It is not possible to identify the particular soldier who shot Young.

76. The paraffin test disclosed lead particles on the web, back and palm of the left hand which were consistent with exposure to discharge gases from firearms. The body of Young, together with those of McDaid and Nash, was recovered from the barricade by soldiers of 1 Para and taken to hospital in an APC. It was contended at the hearing that the lead particles on Young’s left hand might have been transferred from the hands of the soldiers who carried him or from the interior of the APC itself. Although these possibilities cannot be wholly excluded, the distribution of the particles seems to me to be more consistent with Young having discharged a firearm. When his case is considered in conjunction with those of Nash and McDaid and regard is had to the soldiers’ evidence about civilians firing from the barricade a very strong suspicion is raised that one or more of Young, Nash and McDaid was using a firearm. No weapon was found but there was sufficient opportunity for this to be removed by others.

Michael McDaid

77. Age 20. This man was shot when close to Young at the Rossville Street barricade. The bullet struck him in the front in the left cheek. The paraffin test disclosed abnormal lead particle density on his jacket and one large particle of lead on the back of the right hand. Any of the soldiers considered in connection with the death of Young might equally well have shot McDaid. Dr Martin thought that the lead density was consistent with McDaid having handled a firearm, but I think it more consistent with his having been in close proximity to someone firing.

William Noel Nash

78. Age 19. He also was close to Young and McDaid at the Rossville Street barricade and the three men were shot almost simultaneously. The bullet entered his chest from the front and particles of lead were detected on the web, back and palm of his left hand with a distribution consistent with his having used a firearm. Soldier P (who can be seen in Mr Mailey’s photographs EP 23/7 and 8; he is looking up the alleyway in No 7) spoke of seeing a man firing a pistol from the barricade and said that he fired four shots at this man, one of which hit him in the chest. He thought that the pistol was removed by other civilians. In view of the site of the injury it is possible that Soldier P has iven an accurate account of the death of Nash.

79. Mr Alexander Nash, father of William Nash, was wounded at the barricade. From a position of cover he saw that his son had been hit and went to help him. As he did so he himself was hit in the left arm. The medical opinion was that the bullet came from a low velocity weapon and Soldier U described seeing Mr Nash senior hit by a revolver shot fired from the entrance to the Rossville Flats. The soldier saw no more than the weapon and the hand holding it. I think that the most probable explanation of this injury is that it was inflicted by a civilian firing haphazardly in the general direction of the soldiers without exposing himself enough to take proper aim.

Michael Kelly

80. Age 17. Kelly was shot while standing at the Rossville Street barricade in circumstances similar to those already described in the cases of Young, Nash and McDaid. The bullet entered his abdomen from the front which disposes of a suggestion in the evidence that he was running away at the time. The bullet was recovered and proved that Kelly was shot by Soldier F, who described having fired one shot from the Kells Walk area at a man at the barricade who was attempting to throw what appeared to be a nail bomb. (Kelly is probably the man lying on the ground in Mr Mailey’s photograph EP 32/2. It is probably he who is being carried in Mr Donnelly’s EP 27/10; and certainly his body round which the crowd is clustered in Mr Mailey’s EP 23/10 and 11.)

81. The lead particle density on Kelly’s right cuff was above normal and was, I think, consistent with his having been close to someone using a firearm. This lends further support to the view that someone was firing at the soldiers from the barricade, but I do not think that this was Kelly nor am I satisfied that he was throwing a bomb at the time when he was shot.

Kevin McElhinney

82. Age 17. He was shot whilst crawling southwards along the pavement on the west side of No 1 Block of Rossville Flats at a point between the barricade and the entrance to the Flats. The bullet entered his buttock so that it is clear that he was shot from behind by a soldier in the area of Kells Walk. Lead particles were detected on the back of the left hand and the quantity of particles on the back of his jacket was significantly above normal, but this may have been due to the fact that the bullet had been damaged. Dr Martin thought the lead test inconclusive on this account. Although McElhinney may have been hit by any of the rounds fired from Kells Walk in the direction of the barricade - eg by Soldiers L and M, who are to be seen in Mr Morris’s photograph EP 2/8 - it seems probable that the firer was Sergeant K. This senior NCO was a qualified marksman whose rifle was fitted with a telescopic sight and who fired only one round in the course of the afternoon. He described two men crawling from the barricade in the direction of the door of the flats and said that the rear man was carrying a rifle. He fired one aimed shot but could not say whether it hit. Sergeant K obviously acted with responsibility and restraint. Though I hesitate to make a positive finding against a deceased man, I was much impressed by Sergeant K’s evidence.

James Joseph Wray, Gerald McKinney, Gerald Donaghy and William McKinney

83. These four men were all shot somewhere near the south-west corner of the more northerly of the two courtyards of the flats at Glenfada Park. Their respective ages were 22, 35, 17 and 26. The two McKinneys were not related. Three other men wounded in the same area were Quinn, O’Donnell and Friel. I deal with the cases of these four deceased together because I find the evidence too confused and too contradictory to make separate consideration possible. One important respect in which the shooting in Glenfada Park differs from that at the Rossville Street barricade and in the forecourt of the Rossville Flats is that there is no photographic evidence.

84. Four soldiers, all from the Anti-Tank Platoon, fired in this area, namely E, F, G and H. Initially the Platoon deployed in the Kells Walk area and was involved in the firing at the Rossville Street barricade. It will be remembered that at this time some 30 or 40 people were in the region of the barricade, of whom some were engaging the soldiers whilst others were taking cover behind the nearby gable end of the flats in Glenfada Park. (Mr Mailey’s photographs EP 23/10, 11 and 12.) Corporal E described how he saw civilians firing from the barricade and then noticed some people move towards the courtyard of Glenfada Park. He said that on his own initiative he accordingly led a small group of soldiers into the courtyard from the north-east corner to cut these people off. The recollection of the Platoon Commander (Lieutenant 119) was somewhat different; he said that he sent Soldiers E and F into the courtyard of Glenfada Park to cut off a particular gunman who had been firing from the barricade. The result in any event was that Soldiers E and F advanced into the courtyard and Soldiers G and H followed shortly afterwards. In the next few minutes there was a very confused scene in which according to civilian evidence some of the people who had been sheltering near the gable end of Glenfada Park sought to escape by running through the courtyard in the direction of Abbey Park and the soldiers fired upon them killing the four men named at the head of this paragraph. Soldiers E, F and G gave an account of having been attacked by the civilians in this group and having fired in reply. Soldier H gave an account of his activities with which I deal later. From the forensic evidence about a bullet recovered from the body it is known that Soldier G shot Donaghy. It is clear that the other three were shot by Soldiers E, F, G or H. Although several witnesses spoke of having seen the bodies there was a conflict of evidence as to whether they fell in the courtyard of Glenfada Park or between Glenfada Park and Abbey Park. The incident ended when the 20 to 30 civilians remaining in the courtyard were arrested on the orders of the Platoon Commander, who came into Glenfada Park just as the shooting finished.

85. In the face of such confused and conflicting testimony it is difficult to reach firm conclusions but it seems to me more probable that the civilians in Glenfada Park were running away than that they were seeking a battle with the soldiers in such a confined space. It may well be that some of them had been attacking. the soldiers from the barricade, a possibility somewhat strengthened by the forensic evidence. The paraffin tests on the hand swabs and clothing of Gerald McKinney and William McKinney were negative. Dr. Martin did not regard the result of the tests on Donaghy as positive but Professor Simpson did. The two experts agreed that the results of the tests on Wray were consistent with his having used a firearm. However, the balance of probability suggests that at the time when these four men were shot the group of civilians was not acting aggressively and that the shots were fired without justification. I am fortified in this view by the account given by Soldier H, who spoke of seeing a rifleman firing from a window of a flat on the south side of the Glenfada Park courtyard. Soldier H said that he fired an aimed shot at the man, who withdrew but returned a few moments later, whereupon Soldier H fired again. This process was repeated until Soldier H had fired 19 shots, with a break for a change of magazine. It is highly improbable that this cycle of events should repeat itself 19 times; and indeed it did not. I accepted evidence subsequently given, supported by photographs, which showed that no shot at all had been fired through the window in question. So 19 of the 22 shots fired by Soldier H were wholly unaccounted for.

Oni bai am un haner cyfeiriad am Alexander Nash dim yn gweld dim hyd yn oed yn y propoganda yma sy yn cefnogi nonsense Pogon - a propoganda exercise llwyr oedd Widgery.

[pogon_szczec]

O'dd yr IRA yn falch iawn o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd.

Dyma paham saethodd Martin McGuiness y shots cyntaf.

Pa rhai o'r shots rhain wnaeth hitio'r "British Army"?

Dim, ond yn ol y dystiolaeth ddiweddaraf o flaen y llys n'ath rhai o'r saethiadau daro'r gorymdeithwyr.

Dyma'r honiad gan y meistr Pogon, Eamon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3791953.stm

[GT]

Fedra i ddim gweld son am McGuiness yn dy link pogon_szczec.

[Dan Dean]

Fedra i ddim gweld son am McGuiness yn dy link pogon_szczec.

Na finna. Dangos faint o jiniys di Pogon dydi. Bechod ei fod o wedi cael ei banio. Dwi newydd fod off o maes-e am wsos a wedi bod yn udrach mlaen at glywed ei wit and untelujyns dros yr wythnos. Ond yn anffodus mae ei gyfrif wedi ei gau.